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Surrender

Discussion in 'Wild Card Forum' started by fifthcolumn, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    How does a man command his unruly crew of cutthroats, bent on action, to stand down? How does a captain take the fight out of his warfaced heavy hitters when they smell blood? He goes calm. Stops feeding the emotion.

    He goes logical. He orders a slight change in direction. Not a U-turn. Not reverse course. He knows they won't hear it. Alter course. New information has arisen that needs to be assessed. Stay close to the prey, don't give up the chase, but swing around to the other side of her and make sure everything's sized up right.

    It is much easier to break off the chase entirely (Surrender the fight), after taking the bloodlust out of my crew with another pass by the target. Whether I gain new intelligence on the other vessel or not.

    In conversation, it looks like this.

    "Wait a minute! Wait a minute! ...What the fuck are you saying?!"

    I know exactly what she's saying. Give my crew just that diversion enough to delay the pounce. Or even better- make that the pounce. Give her a chance to express her position in a way I can work with, while I talk down my gang of wild-eyed assassins. Deep breaths are a valuable tool in Surrender. Overuse them with extreme prejudice.



    If you tend to worry more than pick a fight, your Surrender can also be waged logically. If your crew is in fear, projecting an air of confidence is very useful. Act as if- until it comes naturally. Calm reasoning can aid in the crew's surrender of their white knuckle grasp on fear.

    The worrier asks himself "Can I do anything about it?"

    If yes, then do it.

    If no, then the worrying must end. It must be surrendered back to the universe. Otherwise, you are poisoning yourself. And likely others.

    Many will say "You can't just Logic your way out of feelings." I can. It is an act of will, in the end. One can jump anywhere, after the act of will has been secured. Logic is great from Worry because you are covering your ass before you let go. "Can anything be done?"

    Check your baffles. If there's nothing that can be done, then the worry itself is the enemy. Not what you were worried about. Surrendering the need to feel in control of the reality around you is an act of will. The more you do it, the easier it becomes.

    "What you resist, persists," helps people with anxiety and worry. It can be a useful mantra for the worrier. It is still wrong, in my view, but I cannot deny its utility. I would better phrase it as "We are all always casting. Your subconscious doesn't understand don't want. It only understands want. Thinking you don't want something, over and over, will magnetize it to you. Draw it closer."

    If you speak your thoughts into being, you give them more weight. You also run the risk of infecting those around you while you are reinforcing unwanted patterns for your own subconscious to repeat.



    Depressed people are fucked.

    Depression saps will. In my book, you're pretty much fucked without will.

    Unless you could actually convince them that there was a war on and we needed em. If there was some way to tell the asshole in bed that his current affliction was brought on by an enemy who designed it and is feeding upon him, would it work? His depression is induced by a matrix that wants him right where he is. If you could get him to hate that state of affairs, could you move him? If you could convince him that he was actually playing a game where he could become a fucking superhero, could the prick still be depressed? Could he find that much motivation?

    Did they get him to trade his walk on part in the war for a bedroll in a cage?

    I have seen the good in them, brother. They often fall, but I have seen it. There is still something worth fighting for in them. There is still time.

    Perfect Thyself and ascend over the battlefield a little, before dismissing the game. At raising levels of ascension, it feels like the difficulty settings get turned down. You can stop at any time and enjoy the game, from that perspective, for the rest of your life. You can even revert, in the lower levels, if you don't like it.

    In The Matrix, the Oracle tells Neo

    You have the mark... but it looks like you're waiting for something.

    You're next life? I don't know.
     
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  2. enjoypolo

    enjoypolo Moderator
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    What you're saying reminds me of the myth of sisyphus by camus. Although I do think I've gone through depression in the past, never did I wanted to take my life out, even if its out of fear of dying. One way I think would achieve this shift in consciousness is psychedelic-assisted therapy.
    Although ironically, based on my own experiences, I would categorize psychedelics as an ego-death catalyst (materialistic suicide) an initiation to lifting the veil. DMT being the perfect example of experiencing that sort of dying, which shook me, but also showed me a more humble path.


    It's such a monumental effort to realize you're the chained guy looking at shadows playing out, thinking that's my whole universe, to "oh wait, what, the whole thing has a backstage area, where Joe is acting out the epic shadows on the wall for me to believe in?"
    But even a mild dose of a couple grams of psilocibyn would rock you out of that comfy boat.

    Now having said that, I've come across suicide letters that felt genuine, where the overall feeling was that of liberation and complete acceptance of surrender, and "sorry I let you down, but don't worry about me, I know where I'm going back to" sort of feeling. That in itself is quite psychedelic, so I guess people do it differently, and I can't really make judgement on whether it helps or not. Maybe they realized the lessons to be learned and needed time-out.

    I dunno what I'm rambling, but yeah, I think that stuff carries over in your next life though.
    Like a Karma credit system

    PS: Actually, this reminds me of great, dark-humor film called Kill Me Please (2010) about a clinic in Switzerland to end-your-life willingly (euthanasia). Things take an interesting turn when shit hits the fan, and that's all I can say without spoiling more. It's quite the detour, but I think we're coming back full circle:p

     
    #2 enjoypolo, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  3. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    There's no doubt psychedelics can aid you. My problem is that, for me, it winds up being like Thomas Campbell (My Big Toe) describes. The drug becomes a crutch. I can't achieve the mind state I want without it. I want to be able to come and go at will. If the drug becomes my dumbo feather, I can't fly without it.

    I used to only be able to achieve "ecstatic" states of gratitude and joy while stoned. It bothered me and I told myself that I needed to make every effort to experience these heightened states sober. I didn't. But I kept envisioning what that would have to look like. Repeatedly set the intention and never really did a damn thing about it.

    After a few years, it happened. And I can do it more readily now.

    Entheogens are definitely useful. I don't know if I could've envisioned those "ecstatic" mind states without the weed having shown them to me first. I don't know that I could've seen what I was shooting for without having been there. And I, damn sure, didn't know what I was missing.

    I prefer to call them entheogens to pattern the experience for my subconscious mind. If my subconscious mind is God, then the entheogen becomes an exploration of me.


    I would never tell another man he didn't have the right to push his own RESET button. But I think a lot of those people get in those head spaces because they're believing the matrix they see in front of them. Born into the Age of Cubicles. Not the Age of Castles. They have not been granted the perspective that they were born into an Age of Apocalypse. An Age of Aquarius. And an Age of Supermen. That might have nudged me out of a few years of my depression. Not everybody, but I'm a child of Rambo with a hippy's heart. I might have been able to hear it.

    And you're right. Surrender is not what depressed people want. They're already rolling with too much Surrender. They need Motivation, something to fight for, piss and vinegar.
     
  4. sirujux

    sirujux Active Member

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    if I did shrooms or something id probably get depressed, when I drink alone I get depressed. once you get very depressed in your life you pretty much never are as happy again. kinda like once you do speed or something then you then that stuff rewires your brain, I took pills that were speed when I was little and that's the main reason im not normal, also getting shocked, toxic chemicals from working, hitting my head a bunch ect. im normal but a lot of time I like rolling a small stick or something in my hands because its relaxing I guess. having trauma as a kid from doing stupid stuff that made me get to the hospital wasn't good ether. but life is good though, im addicted to eating good food and to information and stuff. my avatar is what I think we are using math, its the tree of life. 24 is a cool number too because if you add three to each 8 sides of a octagon. both those came to me in a dream when I was real sick. its probably natural to think about numbers and geometry when you don't feel good. at least for me because its a important thing that everything in the universe is.
     
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  5. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    I agree. Drinking is depressing. Numbers are solid.
     
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  6. sirujux

    sirujux Active Member

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    I remember the dreams that were real solid like it was real when I fell asleep with a computer on. it was the opposite of dreams of blackness and floating with some lights or shapes. even though both of those were a bad sleep they are way diferent but very real. its real so you can wake up easy because you aren't in a deep sleep its more like a shallow sleep where I asked anyone if there was aliens with the dream I had where I looked like my avatar in all blackness, there were white squares in the courner and someone moved by there and they weren't in my dream but I thought they were there and I said ok they agree with me. that doesn't really mean yes or no, they just said they might know. that was probably the dumbest post ever but im going to sleep.
     
  7. sirujux

    sirujux Active Member

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    once you do shrooms, get real sick, become real healthy then your not like those people that are like sheep like on youtube or facebook or something. that's why im happy because im not supporting the system, im always against it even though most people don't care and think we live all advanced even though our power grid is probably going to break and everyone will die.
     
  8. enjoypolo

    enjoypolo Moderator
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    Speaking of surrender, this is an epic scene from the film The Square:



    Not sure why, but it was destined to be shared.
    PS: I think Olegg is the dude behind Caesar in planet of the apes.
     
    #8 enjoypolo, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  9. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of the subconscious mind being God, I would say it is not. The unconscious mind has a connection to God, but it is still removed from God and is not God itself. God is the unity point where all consciousness is connected as one. If you or the mind you think of is differentiated, it is not God itself, but a smaller aspect of the larger whole.
     
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  10. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    If I were forced to put money on it, I'd be betting with you, man. It seems like it should be that way, doesn't it? But the universe has bitten me before with seems and shoulds. I like me an exit strategy. Some wiggle room. Some play. I also like some of the perspectives afforded to me by the belief that it is God.

    But I agree with you, man, and cannot argue against any of your points. I could envision a single, above all, Source that created a sandbox for creators to come up through. In which case this "differentiation" you speak of is twofold. Like you say, "A smaller aspect of the larger whole." But there is a great chance that this above all Source does not intervene. Which would then create a reality resembling a democracy of "smaller" sources.

    What astonishes me is how viable the whole "my subconscious mind is God" thing is. You know? Cause it seems to fit with a lot of other models and having it in my back pocket grants me some useful perspectives. Does it have a drawback? A flaw? Some aspect of it that is harmful?
     
  11. sirujux

    sirujux Active Member

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    its the age of life is a joke so ill shut the hell up before I look like a broken bloke.

    I suck at rhyming so im going to bed because im fed up with the dead system.
     
    #11 sirujux, Jul 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  12. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    Jesus, dude. That video is disturbing.

    This is hollywood attempting to pattern men into pussydom. (This is one way I distract and redirect my crew after somebody like Polo takes a disturbing turd in my thread.) Shit like that would never happen. Only to rarefied, effete twats who've been overcivilized out of their humanity. (Crew ain't sold. I still got that sour feeling in my gut.) Nobody brought an uzi? All those dudes and not one uzi? (Crew's starting to get on board. Push the advantage.) I live in the land of cowboy hats and concealed carry, baby. Good, salt of the earth Trump voters. They'd have put up with ol' Oleg's show right up until the girl started screaming. At which point, three or four of them would've stood up, clicked back the hammers on their Dirty Harries, and whispered in unison, "How far ya wanna take this, monkey boy?" (Crew standing down.)

    WOMEN - Few men are gonna let this kinda shit happen to you. Give me ten men and I'll give you 9 bucket lists with "save a damsel in distress" on them. Politics aside, the masculine is patterned to protect the feminine. As much as they would like you to believe otherwise.

    Wow, Polo. That vid hit me in a tender spot. I am no good with modern movies. Too fucking dark. I consider this fair return after I took my dump in your channeled Duncan Trussell thread. Well played, sir.
     
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  13. enjoypolo

    enjoypolo Moderator
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    My bad for dumping that on here. Though your answer to it made my day :D
     
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  14. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    And your answer to my answer kinda made mine... Shit, man. If your turd causes two blessings, does it still count as a turd? I don't think so, dog. I think I'm still one up on you. Feel free to defecate amongst my posts at will. When we stop making people's days, we'll call it even.
     
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  15. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    If you think that sunspots are caused by ants you may observe and record many aspects of the cosmos, but never correctly attribute the correct cause of space weather. If you want to know why sunspots correlate with something you may well begin speculating on the mood of the ants being affected or what the ants did to cause such an effect. Neither of these ideas will help in determining the correct mechanism of cause and effect.

    Studying NDE experiences helped guide me to making some determinations of what God is. These experiences are primarily focused on a widely expanded perspective so vast that it cannot be retained upon returning to the body, especially when in communion with God. That degree of interconnectedness brings it's own awareness. While a materialist view starts at the atom and works up to energy and information a spiritualist view typically works in reverse. Is God a conglomeration of smaller sources or a single source differentiated into smaller aspects?

    I suppose it is just a matter of perspective and how deep into the chain of custody you dig. Heurtistics can yield decent results most of the time but fail horribly when information outside of the model is presented. So long as the risk of failure and cost of failure are low it makes sense to use them when resources are limited. But they are not as as accurate as more rigorous and intensive approaches which are based on a great deal more data and have better correlation to reality.

    You can hunt mice in your kitchen with a shotgun, based on the heuristic methodology that shoguns will kill just about anything. You could also try to hunt a whale with a shotgun, but it's awful bloody business. Hunting just about anything in between those extremes a shotgun will work, but is it the best implement for hunting in any circumstance? Not at all, especially given the amount of meat that must be discarded due to lead contamination. Believing your subconscious is God is probably quite a bit lower than any scenario involving wild animals and shotguns on the risk scale given what most people believe God is. But it might end up limiting your perspective.
     
    #15 shamangineer, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  16. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    Neither of these ideas will help in determining the correct mechanism of cause and effect.

    Yeah, man, I'm not so much concerned with absolute truths about the mechanisms of cause and effect. I figure that's why they designed dudes like you. The hyper-intelligent, attention to detail payers. I don't have that in me. Most of us out here are just grunts, man. We don't qualify for Q Section. I'm just trying to get usable tools out to the grunts in the field.

    I think the "My subconscious mind is God" theory is elegant and poetic. AND NEITHER YOU OR I CAN POINT OUT ANY FLAWS IN THE MOTHERFUCKER. That means something to me. I mean, any belief runs the risk of being over-focused on to the point of "limiting your perspective."

    I can teach a grunt to use a shotgun in a half an hour and he can be hunting rabbits and killing wolves at his gate tonight. It's also an ascension tool. Ascension and the study of magic become about the same thing. Me. It's kinda two-birdsy that way. It's also the survival tool. No gear. Naked and Afraid or Mad Max conditions magic.

    When we need to nuke a whale, we call Q Section. But the shotgun has done me right nice. Useful.
     
  17. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    I have pointed out flaws, but frankly you seem a bit fixated on the idea. If you want to understand my perspective on the mind I suggest listening to the mind episode I did, I'll leave it at that.
     
  18. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    Sorry, dude. Didn't mean to sound flippant.

    What I took from your post- as far as flaws:

    1) It might be wrong. Agreed. I think all belief structures run this risk.

    2) It seems to disagree with your notions of God derived from your NDE research. Although I don't see how. If "unity consciousness" is God, then I would ask if those NDE'ers felt like they were in a position to cause hurricanes upon the earth. Is this "unity consciousness" that which intervenes in human affairs? Or is it home base, outside the game, detached and uninterfering? Which, in my view, would make our individual subconscious minds the only Gods worth applying to for manifestation.

    3) I don't know what you have against Heuristics. I think they're a useful tool when "information outside the model is presented." I'm not looking for absolute truth. I'm looking to get the job done. If I come to new information that proves tangible drawbacks to the models I use, I can change my belief structure to account for it. Wouldn't be the first time.

    4) It might limit my perspective. Agreed. I think all belief structures run this risk.

    If I've missed something, please let me know.

    Hey man, when I say AND NEITHER YOU OR I CAN POINT OUT ANY FLAWS IN THE MOTHERFUCKER. it is not a statement of gloating. I was trying to write an impressive way of showing how CRAZY it is that SHAMANGINEER can't see through this model! Because I'm with him! Most of me believes, like he does, that God is outside of him. But the fact that neither he or I can find tangible flaws, specific to that model- blows me away!

    When I say AND NEITHER YOU OR I CAN POINT OUT ANY FLAWS IN THE MOTHERFUCKER. it is a statement of respect for your mind. If I think that somebody as smart as you can only say "It might be wrong and it might limit your perspective," then that is a huge win for the "Subconscious Mind As God" model! I would have thought a guy like you might be able to shatter it into a million pieces at first glance. Didn't happen. The model is kinda sturdy...

    RETARDEDLY STURDY. Honestly, bro, it bothers me how sturdy it is. It bothers me how much you and I want to fight against it. All the while, these mantras from hokey religions hang in the air around me. "God is within you." "Go within." "The Kingdom of Heaven lies within."
     
  19. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    I am contending that the unconscious mind is the key and a connection to God, but is not necessarily God itself. I have outlined the connections and chain of custody of information between the conscious, subconscious, and unconscious minds in the mind episode and so don't really want to spend the time to re-hash it all here. I just want to make it clear why I contend that the subconscious as God is not durable in terms of self-knowledge. If that belief helps you to accomplish something, feel free to use that shorthand, but I am absolutely saying that there is more that that model does not acknowledge which is why in my opinion it is a form of heuristic thinking that can have certain benefits, but which is limited by what goes unacknowledged.

    Some sources that would tend to be in alignment with this contention:
    Ingo Swann - specifically outlining the role of the unconscious in his book Natural ESP.
    Dr. Stuart Hamerhoff - his orch-or model delves below the thresholds of both conscious and subconscious thought and discusses quantum cellular interactions with the cells microtubules.
    The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab's model of consciousness is roughly analogous to my model and the others presented.
     
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  20. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    The Fredric W.H Meyer model is also in alignment with this contention. The book Irreducible Mind mentioned in this talk is based on quite a bit of research but uses Meyers' model as the basis. Irreducible Mind not an easy read, but works as a good reference for various phenomena and figuring out how it relates to such a model.