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Scott Santens: Universal Basic Income

Discussion in 'THC+ Episodes' started by enjoypolo, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. hisich

    hisich Member

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    Govt. f*cks things up...Statist blames "da' corporations"...

    Dude promotes socialism...makes excuses when socialist schools spend $150,000/student & turn out ignorant, brainwashed, economically-unviable adults...


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  2. hisich

    hisich Member

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  3. hisich

    hisich Member

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    Whines about student loan debt voluntarily taken out by legal adults to voluntarily pursue 'higher' education...says nothing about the ungodly amount stolen from taxpayers to fund the daytime prisons/indoctrination camps children/young adults are forced into for 13 years.


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  4. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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  5. nickzeptepi

    nickzeptepi Active Member

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    Good intentions & compassion are not the same.

    Your general replies reminded me of this quote.


    when we lack an internal sense of truth, meaning, or value, we will seek after external models to live by. Once we have found models that suit us, we then impose them upon our own expression and behaviors. After that, we “naturally” seek to impose them on others as well–for “their own good” of course, but really for our own safety and comfort and to ensure that those adopted values–our crucial fictions–are never questioned. To silence all voices of dissent, both inner and outer, and avoid all “contrapuntal conflict.”


    https://auticulture.wordpress.com/2017/09/27/a-critical-divide-part-three-of-four-lend-me-your-eyes/
     
    2 people like this.
  6. hisich

    hisich Member

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    I have some compassion for ignorant/dumb people who make bad decisions (like loading up on student loan debt to pay for an overpriced/unproductive degree) based on bad advice (mostly from Leftists)...however, I have more compassion for the people who are forced to bailout these ignorant/dumb people.

    This is the problem w/'compassionate' Leftists: they only see one side of the equation & are so into Victimhood Culture that they often fail to hold individuals accountable for their own acts.

    Is taxing an already-stretched-thin middle-income earner in order to pay for the mistakes of others an act of 'compassion'...?

    In this very thread we have the college edumacated shamangineer--who bragged that he makes 3X as much as I (who chose to go into the work force after high school) do--whining about his student loan debt...and yet, despite making 3X as much as me, this massive turd thinks I should pay for his education.

    I say FUCK THAT and FUCK HIM!
     
    #86 hisich, Feb 28, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  7. hisich

    hisich Member

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    Yeah...maybe you can explain what "unrestrained capitalism" has to do w/the State-monopolized education system...?


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  8. enjoypolo

    enjoypolo Well-Known Member

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    Man, Hisich, you could really use some psilocybin mushrooms to help you deal with all of your shadows that you've been projecting on this forum, since day one.

    Look, I can respect that you have your own made-up opinions about certain things, but why do you even bother keeping all that venom inside your heart? Doesn't it drain your psyche?
    On top that, you're literally being an ass to members.


    I'll still give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't come here with the intention to burn shit down, but you gotta relax.

    Live, and let live. Smoke a little smoke.
     
    2 people like this.
  9. hisich

    hisich Member

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    Emotionally-maniupalitive garbage...
     
  10. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    A lot! John Taylor Gatto has several books which cover the subject.

     
    #90 shamangineer, Mar 1, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
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  11. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    I would say that quote applies more to your arguments than to Enjoypolos heartfelt plea for civility.
     
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  12. nickzeptepi

    nickzeptepi Active Member

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    Compassion, like love is unconditional.

    Anything else is a degraded copy and/or learnt behaviour, acted out by a pseudo-self.

    Yesterday I failed badly and said unkind words to stop their words peeling the scab off my deep wounds, upon reflection what I thought was clever banter was actually treating them with contempt.

    It's hard not to listen to the - I'm not good enough - thoughtform when I'm carrying my parents shadows.
     
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  13. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    Money isn't everything, if I thought I found someplace better in my sphere I would probably leave for a fraction of what I am making now. I'm just saying even making that I haven't managed to pay my loans of yet, though the prospect is what keeps me putting up with what I do for the moment in order to eliminate this liability. These are the kind of choices people are forced to make when they have to take on onerous debt to finance a career.
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  14. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    On loans and wages:
     
  15. metalegs

    metalegs Member

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    I took out a 6k $ loan as a teenager for tech school. It was NOT explained that this loan would NEVER be paid off unless I came up with a lump sum outside of the payments. By the time I made enough to do that the amount grew too high. I am over 50 now and this had haunted me my entire life.

    then you see this

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-do-state-dinners-cost-they-aint-cheap/. snippet below.

    Records from the State Department Office of Protocol, whose budget covers state dinners, show they can cost taxpayers in excess of half a million dollars per event.

    In response to a Freedom of Information request to which it took the State Department 13 months to respond, CBS News has obtained the Office of Protocol’s expense calculations for the first five state dinners of the Obama presidency.

    1. Nov. 24, 2009 – State dinner for Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India. $572,187.36
    2. May 19, 2010 – State dinner for President Felipe Calderon of Mexico. $563,479.92
    3. Jan. 19, 2011 – State dinner for President Hu Jintao of China. $412,329.73.
    4. June 7, 2011 – State dinner for Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany. $215,883.36
    5. Oct. 13, 2011 – State dinner for President Lee Myung-bak of South Korea. $203,053.34
     
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  16. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    Sounds horribly profitable.

    You're right, the money is there to prevent such things. There is one place most of it goes and they have some goofy accountants working there.
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  17. enjoypolo

    enjoypolo Well-Known Member

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    Tinfoil Hat Podcast with Sam Tripoli had a great episode last week with doctor Yared Vasquez, explaining the vicious cycle of how med-students are so deep in debt by the time they graduate, that their anxiety levels are through the roof, not to mention the suicide rate is double to the general population.
    It's not a surprise, then, that the whole medical establishment is corrupted, not because doctors are inherently nefarious, but because it's structured that way.
     
  18. enjoypolo

    enjoypolo Well-Known Member

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  19. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty sure that professionals are subjected to such high workloads (especially in the medical profession) during school to ensure that all they can study related to their field is a certain flavor of information and to leave them in an exhausted slightly hypnogogic state during a large part of their studies. You know, the sort of stuff you might read in the Kubark manual (which was developed based on Korean brainwashing techniques).
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. enjoypolo

    enjoypolo Well-Known Member

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    Reading the report of the Ontario experiment compiled by BICN yields important insights.
    Of the 10% (424 out of 4,500) participants enrolled who filled the questionnaire after the pilot had been cancelled, here are the highlights below (bold/italics are mine):

    Themes/patterns that struck us as most important as the pilot got underway:

    1. Agency. Overall, results show that given genuine choices, recipients made the most of them. Their decisions were based on unique personal circumstances that did not alwaysothers went back to school, enrolled their children in recreational programs, or put some money aside for a future need. Almost everyone ate better.

    2. Anxiety relief. The baseline survey shows over 80% of participants reported moderate to severe psychological stress when they enrolled. Many had unmet physical and mental health needs. A subsequent reduction in anxiety and stress not only came quickly foremployment performance, and a reduction or elimination of the need for medication.

    3. Social connection. Responses and commentary from several questions indicate how basic income combats isolation (that often goes along with anxiety and depression) and increases social engagement. These positive outcomes include increased time andof appropriate clothing brings, and the connections that come with children’s sports programs or adult exercise programs. In the baseline survey, almost 11% of participants volunteered in the community; among the recipients in our survey over 25% volunteered.

    4. Immediacy of change. Pilots that focus primarily on employment responses to a basic income risk missing the steps that it takes to get to sustained, longer-term outcomes in employment and other aspects of life. It is striking in our responses that there werebeen enrolled in the pilot for a few months.

    5. Education.The baseline survey shows that a majority of participants had limited education and that 62.4% with jobs felt those jobs did not offer prospects for advancement. Among our recipients, 32.5% decided to invest in furthering their education or upgrading skills; again a signal that given real options, people will make the most of them in order to get ahead.

    6. Employment. On this issue, optional, open-ended comments provided by people tokeeping employment is a multi-faceted challenge. High transportation needs going into the pilot are closely connected with recipients telling us they used their additional put gas in the tank in order to get to work. Reduced anxiety translated into better job performance, job promotion and entrepreneurial activity. Dental work, improved health,in education to improve longer-term job prospects.
    The negatives are even more crucial:
    And then, suddenly, cancellation of the Ontario Basic Income Pilot changed the story:

    1. When cancellation was announced, anxiety and health problems returned, even worse than before for some (going backwards is terribly hard) and plans ended or changed. Responses are wide-ranging and involved nerve-wracking decisions such as trying to stay in school or dropping out to save tuition money for food. People who moved into better housing faced the prospect of having to seek worse accommodation and move again, while some were stuck with a lease wondering how they will afford it. Some people who were using their basic income to pay down debt decided to pay it down faster. Others started saving. Some felt that they would manage, but almost everyone was devastated and felt betrayed.

    2. Our last question gave people the opportunity to tell us about negative aspects ofbe learned from their experience.
      The vast majority, however, said that the only negative thing about the pilot was its cancellation.
    This is a great insight into the complexity of the effects, and why it's impossible to describe all the impacts (including the negative ones) of a UBI. Having said that, the positives clearly seem to outweigh the negatives, and should be noted.
    I am always surprised to learn of the new results.

    EDIT: The negatives shed an even more important insight: That should a UBI be instituted, it should not be at the whims of our "masters", but instead, a constitutionally guaranteed right, that only a through a citizen referendum could make changes.
    Otherwise, I suspect it could end up being used as a "blackmail" ("Do this, or UBI will be gone") or other forms of shenanigens. At least, that's my first reaction.
     
    #100 enjoypolo, Mar 7, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019