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Implications of the Love / Fear Dichotomy

Discussion in 'Wild Card Forum' started by fifthcolumn, May 26, 2019.

  1. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    Many take issue with my position that Love is not the opposite of Fear. I am sure many feel as though this is a good enough model- even if not "absolutely" true. Why rock the boat if this model of human emotion is good enough?

    I can think of 3 reasons.


    1.) When you take Love's true opposite - Hate - and you turn it into Fear, you make my personal preferences into weaknesses. My Hatred of brussel sprouts becomes a Fear of brussel sprouts or a Fear based on some trauma I had as a kid. Once I have conquered my Fear or healed my trauma, I will come to Love them. Can't I just not like brussel sprouts?

    It's more insidious form arises when we consider my Hatred of torture and rape. Once I have conquered (or "integrated") my Fear or healed some tangentially related trauma in my past that causes my Fear, my only option is to Love torture and rape.


    2.) When you take Fear's true opposite - Security - and you turn it into Love, you make anything that gives you a sense of Security into a Loving endeavor. Like metal detectors in schools, or burglar alarms, or nuclear weapons, or a big-ass wall built along your border.

    If you train your subconscious mind that Security = Love, you will have a very predictable (if subtle) reaction to something called The Department of Homeland Security.


    3.) It mimics the tactics we would use on each other as 14 year old boys.


    Boy A: I dare you to (insert mind-numbingly stupid idea here).

    Boy B: Fuck that!

    Boy A: You pussy!


    Either Love the idea enough to engage in the act, or you are a coward. There are only those options to choose from. The option for Boy B to have analyzed the potential downside of the act and rationally concluded not to engage in it, is not given. It is a way of making someone do something they don't want to.


    It also feels like "The Externalization of the Hierarchy." It seems like precisely the philosophy they would use on a new member of the Illuminati.

    "Kill the child."

    "I don't want to kill a child."

    "It is only your Fear that holds you back. True Freedom is the highest good. True Freedom can only exist when there are no rules. If there are rules, one is not Truly Free. You must have the Courage to step into and claim your True Freedom. Once you have claimed it, you will come to Love the actions that demonstrate your True Freedom from the petty laws of men."



    In the Love / Fear Dichotomy, there can be only two reasons why you don't Love something. Either you are not Brave enough to Love it, or you are not "whole," or not "healed," enough to Love it. The option to Hate (or even dislike) something that destroys the harmony and growth of your brothers and sisters is not given.
     
  2. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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  3. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    Perhaps you could enlighten me as to how my hatred of brussel sprouts causes suffering? Or my hatred of rape?

    I'm sure it is very comforting to think that Love can never lead to anger or hatred or suffering.

    I tend to believe that a hatred of suffering could lead a person to end the philosophies and institutions that needlessly cause it. But that's just me.

    Perhaps it is your Fear of anger and hate that clouds your judgement here? Why don't you Love both anger and hate? And suffering, for that matter?

    Fear can lead to anger and hate. It can also lead to the Courage to do what is right, in the face of evil. For without Fear, can there be any Courage? Is it Brave to do something that doesn't scare you?

    Anger and hate can be valuable emotions that can drive you to stand up for yourself and others, weaker than you. They are the impetus for the statement "I'm not gonna take this anymore!" Of course, they can be misused and abused- just as Love can.

    And finally, Sham, "Because I saw it in a movie once," is not a valid argument.
     
  4. nickzeptepi

    nickzeptepi Active Member

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  5. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    This will sound cliche, but love is all there really is at the deepest level. It becomes differentiated into love of self and love of other where it then achieves finer differentiation to the full spectrum of emotional expression. So love and hate are really expressions of love inwardly or outwardly oriented, and are therefore two sides of the same coin. You must have both love of self and love of others to be a healthy person, but when love of self overshadows love of others pathology develops. Courage is expression of the love of other in the face of great risk as opposed to expressing love of self in difficult circumstances.

    There is nothing wrong at all with being discerning and expressing judgement about the behavior of others when they are acting out of love of self at the expense of others. Hating brussel sprouts with a white hot passion falls into a different category. There is nothing wrong with a dislike of brussel sprouts, but hate would imply that they are antithetical to the healthy expression of your being. In other words, what did brussel sprouts ever do to you?

    Oh, and I saw this in a movie once:
    [​IMG]
     
    #5 shamangineer, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  6. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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  7. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    Thanks for this post, man. It's a really good argument that I find both cogent, and kinda eloquent. I disagree with some points, but I think we come closer to a better understanding because of these disagreements.

    So love and hate are really... two sides of the same coin.

    Agreed. Fear is not the opposite of Love. Hate is the opposite of Love- "two sides of the same coin."

    when love of self overshadows love of others pathology develops. Courage is expression of the love of other in the face of great risk as opposed to expressing love of self in difficult circumstances.

    Let me offer this scenario:

    The woman who has been beaten by her husband for many years and justifies it to herself with statements like "He'll get better," and "I love him and don't want anything bad to happen to him." Finally, one night after a particularly bad beating, she can take no more and calls the cops.

    This is an example of "love of self" overshadowing "love of others" for a positive result.

    The Buddhist concept of "Idiot Compassion" describes this scenario. This woman's compassion becomes "idiotic" because she uses it to create a bubble in which this man's actions have no consequences. Experiencing the consequences of your actions is a fundamental way that humans learn. By allowing her "love for others" to overshadow her "love of self," she has robbed him of this basic learning mechanism and caused both of their growths to stagnate.

    This is actually an example where Courage is an expression of both "love of self" and "love of others" in the face of great risk. Because, if she truly loves him, would she want his growth to stagnate?

    Hating brussel sprouts with a white hot passion falls into a different category.

    I hate brussel sprouts. My wife loves them. I will go out of my way to pick up brussel sprouts for her and look into various methods of preparing them to maximize her pleasure with them. I possess the ability to Hate without a burning desire to destroy every brussel sprout that comes across my path.

    There is nothing wrong with a dislike of brussel sprouts, but hate would imply that they are antithetical to the healthy expression of your being.

    I use "Hate" to describe my degree of dislike for something. Is it cold, or is it freezing? Is it dim, or is it bright? Is it fast, or has it made the jump to hyperspace?

    I dislike figure skating, but I hate rape.

    what did brussel sprouts ever do to you?

    Don't get me started...

    Oh, and I saw this in a movie once:

    That is pretty funny, man. Well played, sir. Well fuckin' played.
     
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  8. shamangineer

    shamangineer Well-Known Member

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    Only a person who lacks a healthy love of self is accepting of abusive relationships. It is about having the correct balance of the two in order to live a healthy life. Putting on your own mask to help others is not selfish, neither is ending an abusive relationship.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. fifthcolumn

    fifthcolumn Active Member

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    Agreed.
     
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